The TroopHR Podcast

Ep 17. Unlocking the Power of Executive Storytelling: Featuring Jared Cozart and LeAnne Harper, Co-Founders of Unlock

August 26, 2024 • Season 1 • Episode 17

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In this episode of the TroopHR podcast, host Taylor Bradley dives deep into the art of storytelling with experts Jared Cozart and LeAnne Harper, co-founders of Unlock. Together, they explore how compelling narratives can transform HR leadership and set professionals apart in a competitive corporate landscape. Discover how to harness storytelling to inspire, persuade, and build lasting connections, both in your career and within your team.

Key Topics:

The Essentials of Masterful Storytelling: Learn what makes a story memorable and how HR leaders can use this skill to stand out.

Discovering Your Superpowers: How to identify and articulate your unique strengths through the art of storytelling.

Overcoming Adversity: Strategies for sharing stories of resilience and growth in interviews and executive profiles.

Cultural Add and Personal Branding: Insights into how personal stories contribute to building trust and finding alignment in organizational roles.

Navigating Career Challenges: Advice on addressing short tenures or layoffs with integrity and confidence.


Credits

TroopHR Founder: Tracy Avin

Show Producer: Nicole Fealey

Show Host: Taylor Bradley

Note: Transcripts generated by AI.


LeAnne Harper: [00:00:00] Great storytellers make you feel something. When you feel something, you remember that story, you remember that person so much more meaningfully.

Taylor Bradley: Welcome to the Troop HR podcast. I'm your host, Taylor Bradley. In today's episode, we're diving into the art of storytelling, a skill that's not just for novelists or filmmakers. But a powerful tool in the corporate world, especially for HR leaders. You know, it's fascinating how a well crafted story can do what facts and figures alone often can't.

Taylor Bradley: It can inspire, it can persuade, and create lasting connections. In the realm of HR and leadership, the ability to tell your story effectively can be the difference between blending in and standing out. But what makes a story truly compelling? How can we harness the power of narrative to [00:01:00] showcase our unique values, navigate career challenges or lead teams more effectively?

Taylor Bradley: To explore these questions and more, I'm thrilled to be joined by two experts in executive storytelling. Co founders Jared Cozart and Leigh Anne Harper of Unlocked. But alas, as we approach the outset, we embark on a journey to uncover the key traits that distinguish exceptional storytellers by asking our main characters in this episode, what are the essential qualities of a masterful storyteller?

Jared Cozart: Some good traits of good storytellers are that you can cut through the noise, And you can hear some very complex and nuanced language reduced into something that's clear and tangible for people to understand. That is something that great storytellers do really well, is they're able to articulate a very [00:02:00] clear vision of the concept that they're trying to tell you about.

LeAnne Harper: Great storytellers make you feel something? When you feel something, you remember that story, you remember that person so much more meaningfully. 

Taylor Bradley: Throughout your careers, who 

Jared Cozart: do you think is a great storyteller? That is a phenomenal question. I think one of my favorite storytellers right now, I really admire the way that Scott Galloway articulates his opinions.

Jared Cozart: I first found him, of course, on the Pivot podcast. I know that he's a A professor at NYU Stern School of Business, he does a great job of reducing really complex material into something that people can clearly understand and to Leanne's point, It invokes some emotion from you as well. It makes you clearly see his point, but also clearly gather your own thoughts as well.

LeAnne Harper: I'll chime in with one of my favorites is Simon Sinek. He's so great at taking concepts that we don't really think about very [00:03:00] often and making them really relevant to our lives. And then he shares wisdom, inspires us to do that. Act differently, to show up differently. So, I think he's really compelling and universally likable.

Taylor Bradley: I agree with Simon. You find that inspirational storytelling. And with Scott, he can talk about controversial topics, but it's in a non threatening, non argumentative, education's the main focus way, which I think is a really unique craft to be able to do. What are some key elements of compelling narrative structure in an executive resume or if someone's going in to tell their story, what are some of those 

Jared Cozart: elements?

Jared Cozart: What we've recognized in collaborating with executives, and that's something that We do on a daily basis is that when executives are operating in their role [00:04:00] on a day to day, they get tunnel vision about what they are actually strongest with what they do really well, what their superpowers are. And from a structural standpoint, it's really important for.

Jared Cozart: Leaders to take a step back from their business. And actually, I think one of the things that they could do is gather information and intel from other people around them. Leanne taught me this, you have to self assess around what is it that people tell me that I'm really great at, that I feel comes completely naturally to me.

Jared Cozart: I think that when Leanne framed that question to me. It was something that I found to be really intriguing because what she was trying to articulate is, Jared, you are a phenomenal networker, and I never thought of myself as that because it's just something that I did on a, in a day to day. And so I think when we talk about what actions to practice and how to, for executives to self assess, it would be to take a [00:05:00] step back, it would be to analyze what are the things that come naturally to me that people suggest I'm strongest with, and Maybe start there with crafting a story and a narrative around that and go deeper around those skill sets.

Jared Cozart: Let's start there. 

LeAnne Harper: I'll dovetail off of that and say, yes, just to echo that sentiment, what we do at Unlock I think really is we hold up a mirror for people. Their gifts, their greatest strengths are often invisible to them because they do it every day, it comes naturally, and to Jared's point, They often just take it for granted, frankly.

LeAnne Harper: So I like to encourage people to do that brand survey informally, understand what am I known for? What is the thing that you come to me for? If you need X, Y, and Z, what is that? I'm your person for that. That helps you understand maybe how to tell your story in a meaningful way. And I think [00:06:00] one of the other things that is really important in telling great stories is.

LeAnne Harper: We're so conditioned, especially when we're wearing a professional hat to talk about what we do, how big our teams are, the companies we've worked for, and those things can be meaningful or interesting, but frankly, those are oftentimes the most forgettable aspects of who we are and. We really like to ask questions that bring a holistic picture of the person to the conversation.

LeAnne Harper: I'll just share an example. I was at a event recently where I met hundreds of leaders and executives. I could not tell you what any one of them individually does professionally, but I can tell you, and I have a picture in my mind of the woman who I spoke with, who I discovered were both the oldest of five children and another woman who.

LeAnne Harper: We discovered we both have a love of dogs and literally both had dog treats hidden in her pocket from spending time with our [00:07:00] dog. I think those human connections are the things that accelerate a relationship, make you memorable and trustworthy, frankly, because I think that that's something Jared and I talk about a lot is when you're telling your story, you're trying to invite someone into your world and hopefully care about you showing up, care about what you have to say.

LeAnne Harper: I think great storytelling does exactly that. 

Taylor Bradley: In the concept of holding the mirror, which I love, because Jared, you highlighted that wasn't a trade that you necessarily thought was a strength of yours, but other people saw that in you. Leanne, that framing of that, which is brilliant. What's the origin story of that?

LeAnne Harper: You know what? It was like on the job learning. Having worked in talent for decades, let's just say, I've literally interviewed thousands of candidates from interns to executives. I've hired hundreds of people. And I think what I realized is people [00:08:00] don't know how they show up. And now we talk about it in terms of branding and such, but I've always had a fundamental belief that everybody has a fascinating story to tell if you ask the right questions and then really listen.

LeAnne Harper: And so in interviewing so many candidates, I think that's what I realized. And often when I would echo back just to validate what I heard you say, for example, Taylor, when we're in an interview, people would say. Wow, that sounds great. That sounds even better than how I said it. I know I would give them the credit, frankly, because that all I was doing was holding up a mirror.

LeAnne Harper: And so that's, I think it just happened in real time over hundreds of conversations with people, helping them get really comfortable and more honest and vulnerable, and then just holding up the mirror by asking questions and then reflecting it back to them, and you could literally see. And then light up going, wow, I sound a lot more impressive than I even realized.

LeAnne Harper: So that's a great feeling. 

Jared Cozart: One of the things that we've gone really deep with, leaders with [00:09:00] here at Unlock is bringing the invisible story to life because that's where the greatness lies. And we do that for a couple of reasons. But the first is. We want leaders to feel more empowered when they're going out there to face the market.

Jared Cozart: Right now, it can feel like an absolute wave is washing over you with how many people it feels like you're up against, how steep the competition is. And so as we were developing our concepts for the way we collaborate with our clients at Unlocked, One of the things that we wanted to do is say, okay, how do we bridge the gap between the stories that people tell about themselves versus the stories that companies and potential collaborators need to hear about them?

Jared Cozart: The goal is at a more, the most fundamental level to accelerate and find trust as quickly as possible. If you notice as a recruiter, the first thing that you do when you get introduced to somebody or when [00:10:00] somebody's introduced to you is you go to LinkedIn and you use LinkedIn. Compartmentalize them into certain boxes based on the titles and the companies that they worked at and whether you're interested or not interested in them.

Jared Cozart: And you do that in five to 10 seconds. And so what we said is, how do we help elevate that person's story to a place where people can actually see it, cut through the noise, empower them and put them in the driver's seat of their future, because that's going to make them feel like they're actually representing themselves in the best light.

Jared Cozart: What it also does. Is, it gives businesses and potential collaborators opportunities to see them as they truly are. So often when executives are going out to the market and trying to compete against everybody else that's out there, they're doing the things that they've been taught to do with, let me update my resume and let me, let me get my board profile together.

Jared Cozart: And what are all the key buzzwords that I need to hit? Those things are all great, but it does not [00:11:00] articulate who you are and what creates alignment and what creates trust. With a business that you're trying to potentially collaborate with. So I think that's one of the reasons why, to your point around, why did we decide to hold up this mirror?

Jared Cozart: We look, we did a lot of research as we were developing our strategies and our processes here at Unlock down to stripping everything away from the resume and developing something that we call an executive scouting report, which is more of a human, uh, human depiction of who the individual is that you are about to connect with.

Jared Cozart: And we did that because I would say the feedback and the complaints from leaders as they came to us continued to be the same. It was like, I feel like nobody actually knows who I am. And so we wanted to step, step back from that and help them articulate that story in a different way. 

Taylor Bradley: What's fascinating with that process, it reminds me of a quote, and to our French and Swiss listeners, give me some [00:12:00] slack here, but Jean Luc Godard.

Taylor Bradley: Who is a filmmaker, sometimes reality is too complex and stories give it four. So when you're in that story forming process with your candidates, Leanne, what is one question that you love to ask in the start of a conversation when you meet a new candidate? 

LeAnne Harper: Oh, it always happens so organically. I don't know if there's a one question.

LeAnne Harper: Not something as basic, and this is how many people start off interviews. They'll just say, tell me about yourself. And that. It doesn't really generally elicit the most meaningful stories, or it can often lead people down a path of like a canned answer, I guess I should say. You know what I often will ask?

LeAnne Harper: I'll ask something that they just honestly haven't thought about, but where there's no right or wrong answer to just get them talking. I'll say something like, Taylor, what's been the highlight of your week so far? I'm not judging you, whatever you say to me. So it just makes it [00:13:00] comfortable for you to just start talking about yourself.

LeAnne Harper: I'm not diving in by asking about your credentials, how many years you spent here or there, echoing Jared's point before when we're coaching executives. And the reason I try to start conversations in an atypical way is because we're so conditioned to talk about what we do and at this level of people's careers.

LeAnne Harper: Frankly, your skills and expertise are pretty much table stakes and really what is going to differentiate whether or not you have a meaningful connection with someone, whether you're the right cultural fit for an organization, whether they're the right place for you to invest your talents and career.

LeAnne Harper: It's more about who you are and how you show up and what you care about. So that's the philosophy behind it, but I've just been doing it for so long that I'll ask random off the wall questions like that, or what's the last, the most recent thing you've done that really scared you. 

Taylor Bradley: And to answer both those questions, my daughter started preschool this week, and [00:14:00] that's Eric Lane and this is the highlight of my week so far.

Taylor Bradley: So we're surviving that. 

LeAnne Harper: But see, that's a perfect example too, because now I know how much you care about your daughter, your family person, and look at how your face lit up. I know some of our listeners can't see you, but when you light up and you, that, that Authenticity, that joy that's coming through, that's what people connect to and that's what they remember.

LeAnne Harper: I'll never forget that you have a daughter who just started preschool. 

Taylor Bradley: Neither will I. And so let's, one of the topics that always comes up is stories have different genres, right? One of which is failure and how to navigate that. Gone are the days, we talked about this in a prior episode of answering, tell me about something that You've worked through and fail, it's, you can't just say, I care too much, right?

Taylor Bradley: How do you coach individuals to [00:15:00] navigate those types of questions with a compelling story?

Jared Cozart: I think Leanne and I, Leanne and I have a different opinion of the best way to approach this, but. In a broader sense, this makes me think more about resilience and your response to failure than it does about the failure itself. I remember I interviewed someone at a prior company that I asked if the biggest failure was like for them.

Jared Cozart: And they had to think about it really long and hard and they said, I've never failed before. That was a red flag to me. I have to say that was a red flag to me. Now, Leanne, and I'll let you speak for yourself, Leanne, but I think you look at failure in a different way than I, than I do. The way that I look at failure is that I fail every single day on things that I set out to do, and if you do them with enough intention, and with those goals, with specific goals in [00:16:00] mind, you might look at them as failures, but you can also look at them as lessons learned.

Jared Cozart: And so, the way that we coach, and the way that I coach, specifically, leaders who approach that type of question is, You want to talk about, and it does not have to specifically be about work, by the way. You want to talk about the times that you have faced adversity and exemplified resilience in the deepest and most meaningful way.

Jared Cozart: So when we have stories of people who are, have a very long story about immigrating to the United States or becoming a U. S. citizen or lost a parent, And had to take care of their family members at a younger age or had to take care of themselves when their parents were always at work when they were really young and what they what that taught them in their life and in their career.

Jared Cozart: Those are the stories that people want to hear because it says who you are at your core, the resilience and the grit and determination that you can show, and I think it's a better answer to how you'll show up [00:17:00] with failure. 

LeAnne Harper: Yes, and I'll echo that we all know, right, if you're pushing yourself to grow, if you are trying things that you're not already perfect at, you will fail.

LeAnne Harper: However, air quote, define failure. I personally, I embrace the idea because I like to directly face my fears. And so success with a capital S is never the goal. To Jared's point, my goal is to grow and learn something and frankly, to build my courage muscles. I'm really proud of myself when I do something that terrifies me and I get through to the other side.

LeAnne Harper: For example, I grew up in the Jaws era. I'm terrified of sharks. So I've now gone swimming with sharks on two different occasions, most recently free diving. And I'm already planning my next dive because it makes me feel like Nothing can take me down. It makes me feel like if I can do that, of course I can get up on a stage [00:18:00] and speak in front of 500 people or 5, 000 people, which I've also done, which is terrifying in and of itself.

LeAnne Harper: But so coaching people on failure, I would say gone are the days where people went, as you suggested, Taylor, like that disingenuous, Oh, I'm just too much of a perfectionist. That's my failure or shortcoming. I think that we connect with people in a really deep. Way when we feel like we can relate to them and when everything looks like it's worked out perfectly and everything comes so easily to someone.

LeAnne Harper: I don't think that's really exciting or inspiring to someone, but if I talk about my failures, for example, and how it took me three different times going back to school to finally get my degree from UCLA, I think that makes me more human and it makes someone else be like, Hey, look at what she's accomplished, but she didn't have the perfect Ivy League pedigree or the simple straight line to success either.

LeAnne Harper: [00:19:00] So I love talking about failures and even better, it doesn't always have to end in triumph. I think that's part of the, the, the trope is it's only something you want to share when you can talk about like the winning success that came from the failure. But in reality, if you can just share how you learned something new about yourself or human relationship dynamics or.

LeAnne Harper: the world, I think that garners more respect than anything else. And again, in terms of storytelling, it just makes you really memorable and relatable. 

Taylor Bradley: I'm impressed about the sharks. I am terrified of sharks, so I'll have to consider that. On a lesser shark scale, I was able to have the opportunity to go to CNBC studio and we did media training there and Michelle Caruso, who's a veteran reporter, was the one that did my mock [00:20:00] interview in studio.

Taylor Bradley: And I was captain for her, which was great, but as terrifying of journey that was, I learned so much. And if I were to be able to go back and do that studio experience again, I feel much more confident. At the end, she was like, you did great! Like the whole time, my legs were shaking like leaves under the table here.

Taylor Bradley: Through that we were 

Jared Cozart: that in and of itself is a muscle to exercise as someone who has hired people has as someone who has helped leaders and executives get hired. One of the things that I notice is it is a continuous practice to put yourself in uncomfortable situations. Discomfort is not a bad thing.

Jared Cozart: In fact, it is the only path towards growth. One of the risks that leaders face is. As you rise and you achieve success, especially those who achieve [00:21:00] success beyond their prior dreams, complacency sets in. And so one of the things that our clients and our collaborators look out for as they bring leaders onto their team and as we work with them potentially as clients is how do you continue to test yourself?

Jared Cozart: It does not necessarily have to be in work, although that's a great thing in this scenario. It could be outside of work. It could be I'm running an Ironman. Right. I am, I just recently got, I'm nerding out about cycling. I recently got a bike and there is this hill right by my house in San Diego. And I've told Leanne and Demetrius this story.

Jared Cozart: It's like, how long, how many months is it going to take me to get up this hill? Me being me doing hard things, it took me about three weeks to get up that hill. Those are the types of things that change you. And people want to hear that as employers. They don't want to hear you riding high consistently to Leanne's earlier point.

Jared Cozart: Yeah. And not continuing to challenge yourself [00:22:00] and falling into a place where you're playing it safe. Sorry, I just want to throw that in there. 

LeAnne Harper: And I have to jump in here too, because given the audience for this podcast and all the work that we're doing and the ways that we're so influential in our organizations, this is fundamental to creating a growth mindset in an organization.

LeAnne Harper: If people don't have room to quote unquote fail or to stretch themselves, they'll stagnate. They'll become complacent. You won't remain competitive. You won't keep employees engaged. People want to push and challenge themselves and level up and be inspired by other people's accomplishments to push themselves harder.

LeAnne Harper: And I think when people are in a culture where they feel like they have to do everything right or perfectly, or there's like the blame game for anything that doesn't go well, that stifles growth, that stifles innovation and companies that approach. [00:23:00] Their talent that way really set such a low ceiling for what's possible.

LeAnne Harper: And companies that get this right, that normalize having failures, taking risks, stretching at the highest levels of the organization, they model that for everyone else and say, yeah, we do want you to do stuff you haven't tried before. And I always think of the example of like, Babies learning how to walk.

LeAnne Harper: They don't try it like three or four times and say, dang, that's really hard. Right. They literally fall down thousands of times just to stand up and then imagine how much longer it takes to build the strength and the capability to take the first steps and you turn into an adult who can do a triathlon like Jared said.

LeAnne Harper: It's just when we think of work cultures that. Make it taboo or shameful even to make mistakes or come up short or whatever. It really encourages people to stay small and I just, I'm always trying to [00:24:00] inspire people to see possibilities instead of roadblocks. 

Taylor Bradley: On the always being right front for my wife, if she's listening, she's always right.

Taylor Bradley: Get that out of the way, ready to clear it up for my wife as well. I hear you, Taylor. So the, a couple of final aspects here, since we're coming in for a landing shortly is what stories should people have prepared or at least thought through before going into these executive panel interviews or interview process?

Taylor Bradley: I'm 

Jared Cozart: prompted to think. About the first question that I like to ask people when we start collaborating with leaders is what is your North star? And what I'm really getting at there is not only what is important to you, but also I'm hopeful that they'll tell me a story about where they come from [00:25:00] and it will lead to where are you trying to go?

Jared Cozart: So I think grounding yourself in that type of story that is bigger than any one job is bigger than any one. Specific skill set that you might bring to the table is able to articulate a far greater narrative about who you are and how you show up and how you want to continue showing up or show up in the future.

Jared Cozart: I think that's one of the most critical ways that we can ground ourselves in a, in the appropriate narrative 

LeAnne Harper: and echoing back to the earlier part of the conversation. I think just really taking the time to know what your superpowers are, like what you're singularly known for, what you're great at is a great opening because typically those things like transcend function, they transcend industry, right?

LeAnne Harper: They're just human things. But then the [00:26:00] other reason I like the superpower as a place to start is because It's also a really natural way to start thinking about your origin story and how you built that particular gift or skill, like Jared sharing the story about being resilient. Now it opens him up to share a story about how he was a D1 baseball player and how he had a career ending injury.

LeAnne Harper: And guess what? If I'm a potential employer of that guy who pushed through those things, who competed at that level, who was resilient and found the silver lining to that cloud, That tells me a lot about his character and how he will show up. So I agree, things that, that translate well into the organization, but come from a, from a personal place, again, like superpowers or origin story.

LeAnne Harper: That's the kind of thing that will really help companies, the people that are making decisions for companies, decide if you're the right cultural ad to take their [00:27:00] organization forward. 

Taylor Bradley: And it's a great point on the superpowers. If we think through our heroes or superheroes, their origin stories are, they are flawed characters, but those flaws don't prohibit them from doing great things, and that applies to all of us in some aspects with our origin stories and Jared to tie it back.

Taylor Bradley: You talk about resilience, navigating adversity, these are critical traits, specifically in the HR field, because we deal with these things all the time. Now one, maybe a hot button question, or a spicy question, is if I go to a place, and And I have a short tenure either from being laid off or it just didn't work out one way or another.

Taylor Bradley: How do you navigate that part of the story when you're in the interview process?[00:28:00] 

Jared Cozart: I think that you have to be grounded in your core values. If you have strong core values, which I know that many members of the, all the members of Troop HR do, I would say that be honest about what happened and upfront and forthright about why it worked out, why it didn't. Or why, I'm sorry, why it didn't work out.

Jared Cozart: And maybe this more speaks to my core values, but I think that you have to face problems or potential problems head on with honesty and integrity. And so that is the way that I think people should approach that situation. At the end of the day, again, what you're trying to do, the main goal is accelerating and finding trust with these potential employers or potential job opportunities.

Jared Cozart: And the best way to do that. Is to be honest. 

LeAnne Harper: And we coach executives all the time on this because. What [00:29:00] happens is when you're not honest, and honestly, you can be too honest too. So one of the things that we do often is, yeah, we have to coach people through a very simple question. An obvious question is like, why are you leaving or why did you leave your last company?

LeAnne Harper: And one of the things we find is there's for a lot of people, if it was under somewhat dubious circumstances, they feel self conscious. Or embarrassed or guilty, or they anticipate that they'll be judged negatively. And when they haven't resolved the story in their own mind, they bring that baggage into their response.

LeAnne Harper: And I can always tell, because their answer is abnormally long and complicated. But when you can make peace with that, psychologically, whatever the story was, do your own work to make peace with it. And then tell your most honest and direct version of the truth. And that could be something like, I was very excited and [00:30:00] hopeful when I joined this company.

LeAnne Harper: And unfortunately, at the end of the day, it didn't take me long to realize that my values did not align with the leadership team. No fault to them, but that's just not a place where I could really thrive. And I decided it was better to leave on my own terms than to languish there or something like that.

LeAnne Harper: But just owning it, I think What people are really looking for is a signal that you are confident and that you learned something. And that helps reveal a lot about you. So again, being honest in that idea of owning the truth. 

Taylor Bradley: And you've previously worked in the entertainment industry at Sony. When it comes to working in that industry, what is one takeaway that you've had that you've applied to the rest of your career?

LeAnne Harper: I don't think I've really thought about that before. So good question, Taylor. I think off the top of my head, the first thing that comes to mind is [00:31:00] when people think entertainment is glamorous and exciting and sexy and cool. It is. I don't have a myth buster there for you. It is. There's so many things about working in an industry that we all can relate to on a personal level for entertainment is it really is that great.

LeAnne Harper: What that also means is you have to be really great. They have their choice of talent. It means you can't be like, that's not my job. You can't have an attitude that says I'm just going to do the bare minimum. It means you have to stay fresh and current and competitive. Not that the environment culturally has to be competitive, but it really means that you are raising the bar on what's possible because.

LeAnne Harper: Everyone wants to get their foot, not everyone, but a lot of people are competing for a few roles at any given time. So I think what that teaches me, and I used to like actually talk on panels [00:32:00] and help people understand how to break into the entertainment industry, for example, And what it means is if you can highlight the things about yourself, or if you can yourself just really tune into what do I do exceptionally well, that's what I need to lead with.

LeAnne Harper: That's what I need to lean into because that kind of environment, the pace, the output, all of it, it's at such an accelerated rate and it really is that. exciting and fast moving. So you have to do everything you can to keep up and uphold that standard. 

Taylor Bradley: What I've always admired about actors is the tenacity to keep moving forward.

Taylor Bradley: The amount of times they go out for auditions, but keep moving forward if they don't get the part. I used to take it really hard if I got a rejection letter, but you have to come to terms with not every script is for you, you'll find one that aligns. And Jarrett, we'll go back, come back with me in time for just a moment to when you were a financial representative and [00:33:00] helping people with their finances, I believe at Northwestern Mutual, is that right?

Taylor Bradley: That's correct. I forgot 

LeAnne Harper: about that. 

Taylor Bradley: You did some digging. Okay. Right. And I would love to know in that period of time, helping people with All sorts of aspects of their financial life. What did you learn about leading without authority or coaching people, how to make pragmatic and right decisions for their finances?

Jared Cozart: That is an excellent question. And one that I think actually relates to a lot of the work that we do today at Unlock, what I learned, what collaborating with people during that time is.

Jared Cozart: So often the goals that people have come from a place that isn't readily apparent on the surface. And when we would be [00:34:00] meeting people, or when I would be meeting people, was at a very, I mean, you're talking with people about their finances. These are very sensitive conversations. And it reminds me of the types of conversations that we have with people today when A leader who has been in an organization for 15 years is I want a new job and I have no idea how to approach the current market and it's a very vulnerable place for them to be.

Jared Cozart: So I would say that so often the motivators that people have that they articulate to you. Are not the ones that are truly floating there underneath the surface. A lot of that has to do with mitigating risk or fear. It has to do with securing your longterm future. It has to do with making sure that they can take care of a family member that they can see is going to be getting sick in the next five or 10 years because they've, they've been, uh, they've had a history of health issues, but on the surface, they would say [00:35:00] things like, I want to make sure that I have 2 million In my, in, in, in my IRA when I'm 45 years old and retired for it.

Jared Cozart: And as you would chip away. At their sort of personal narrative, you would get to the true story that was motivating the conversation. And you could understand from there, the type of commitment that they would have, the type of people, the commitment that people would have to setting up their financial future.

Jared Cozart: And again, I'm trying to go back to the way that we would talk when I was at Northwestern Mutual with, shoutouts to Northwestern Mutual, that is actually a great company, I like them a lot. It was, Formidable for my future. But I think that just bringing it back to the, to the work that we're doing at Unlock, the work was also similar because you're helping, you're chipping away at that story, getting down to the studs, if you will, of what is really motivating people, but when you find out the truth at hand, you're able to empower people even more and help them help put them in the driver's seat [00:36:00] even more, help them harness their story, their narrative.

Jared Cozart: Help them see the path more clearly. And that's something that they, because you can create something that is tangible for them for that, at that point in time, it was a financial plan that they could stick to every month. But for our purposes today, it is helping you craft that narrative, helping you articulate your story.

Jared Cozart: Once people can see who they are more clearly, they see how they need to face the market, how In a clearer way, and they can see a clearer path. And I think that's, the work is actually relatively similar. If you really break it down. 

Taylor Bradley: Eloquently put, and I imagine it ties directly when a candidate comes to you and says, I want this.

Taylor Bradley: And then you start chipping away. What does that actually mean for your career? It is a fascinating journey to see. So we've made it to the final question. And the final question that I have for the two of you. Is you've interviewed [00:37:00] hundreds, maybe even thousands of candidates at this point. What is something that people should stop doing in their interviews?

Taylor Bradley: And then what is something they should start doing in their interviews? Whoever wants to go first. 

LeAnne Harper: I like that. I'll let Jared go first. 

Jared Cozart: Oh, I get to go first. Okay. I just 

LeAnne Harper: volunteered you. Give me a little time to think. 

Jared Cozart: Yeah. So Leanna and I were actually talking about this a little bit earlier. One of the things I think.

Jared Cozart: I noticed people do when they wait, when they get on the phone with us, and I hate to call out other functions outside of HR. But when I'm talking to some, typically when I'm speaking to somebody who's technical or product leader or a finance person, they get on the phone and they immediately start telling me about their background and the history, like they will literally walk me through their resume and they'll talk for 10 minutes and I won't be able to get a word in edgewise.

Jared Cozart: [00:38:00] And I'll be like, that's great. But who are you? I have no idea who you are. Tell me who you are. Cause I think this brings me back to a point that Leanne made earlier. It's why should I care? I have a storm, a sea of choice around me. Why should I care about you? And so the thing that people should stop doing.

Jared Cozart: Is jumping right into their resume, leading with this is my title. This is who with AKA, this is who I am. So identifying so strongly with the title that they hold. And I think one of the things that people should start doing is articulating in a very organic way, who you are. Why you do what you do. I think that paints a clear picture.

Jared Cozart: It creates greater connectivity. And again, it accelerates trust. And that's really the heart of what you're trying to do. [00:39:00] Leanne. I hope you've had enough time to think. I felt like I gave a great answer. 

LeAnne Harper: You did. I, you nailed it and mic drop. We're done. No, actually what you said is perfect because I'm really aligned and I think it brings it back to this very topic.

LeAnne Harper: Taylor. I, I tell people, stop selling yourself. And start telling stories about yourself because it changes the power dynamic. When you are selling yourself, you're leading with your accomplishments, the data points and everything. And the data points matter at some point, right? Proof that you can actually do it.

LeAnne Harper: When you take a posture of selling yourself, it puts people naturally back on their heels. Whoa, I feel you coming on so strong. And so then it starts to almost trigger. Like a greater level of discernment or wariness, I think when you just start sharing stories or telling [00:40:00] stories, I think that it invites people to lean in and learn more, to ask more.

Taylor Bradley: I love that. I've never thought about it that way and the implications of selling versus storytelling. Aaron, Jared, to recap yours, stop telling me things that I can see on LinkedIn and start telling me who you are, right? That's exactly right. Mm hmm. Leanne, Jared, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

Taylor Bradley: It was an absolute privilege learning from the two of you. Thank you so much, Taylor. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Troop HR podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, we encourage you to subscribe and leave a five star rating. If you would like to learn more about our community, please visit troophr.

Taylor Bradley: com. In the meantime, keep living the [00:41:00] dream.